娱乐贴：Could non-chinese join PLA?

Paul

【原文地址】：http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/ ... -join-pla-4639.html
【发布日期】：2009-8-18
【翻译截止日期】：2010-12-22 02:55:32
【翻译评论数/总评论】：60+ / 100+
【翻译作者】：Aville
【联名作者】：

　　译文导读：这次是友情翻译，接的是日语小翻浅浅的活儿（大家都搞副业），有3年时间没再怎么碰过英语的我，肯定翻译的不利索，在此恳请各位英语达人不吝赐教，有错直接往我脸上砸，没事的。
这是一位15岁的芬兰热血少年为加入中国人民解放军而发的帖子，一步步翻下来，最大的感触是，不懂不要紧，千万不要装B，否则真正的牛人出现，会让你难堪的。帖文中，bd popeye就是这样一个反面教材。另外，帖子回复的不激动，不上火，不冲动，不问候别人老祖宗的理性风格也值得我们大家学习，有则改之，无则加勉。

Could non-chinese join PLA?

外籍人士可以加入中国解放军么？

PLA Soldier（楼主）

As seen in topic, my porblem is that I wish to know would it be possible for non-chinese citizen to join PLÀ? This not a joke, I´m talking dead-serious about this.

如题，我想知道非中国公民加入解放军是否可能？大家别笑，我是认真的。


评论翻译：

bd popeye

In my short 5 year study study of the PLA the answer is no
The answer can be found in this link below.
http://www.militarytimes.com/static/...3dnplanavy.pdf
Before you make any more post in the forum I suggest you read the forum rules.
FORUM RULES: Things to Remember Before Posting, important, please read!
Thank you and welcome to the forum!

由我五年来对PLA的研究来看，答案是否定的。

你可以看看下面的链接，其中有你要找的答案:

http://www.militarytimes.com/static/...3dnplanavy.pdf(美国人的出台的中国海军报告，有时间可以去看看)

另外，请你以后发帖前先读读本站版规：

FORUM RULES: Things to Remember Before Posting, important, please read!

谢谢，欢迎来到本论坛！

PLA Soldier

Thank you for your answer. But, would it be then possible if I would give up my old citizenship and gain chinese citizenship?
多谢你的回复，但是，如果我放弃原来的国籍，加入中国国籍呢，有可能吗？



bd popeye

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLA Soldier View Post

Thank you for your answer. But, would it be then possible if I would give up my old citizenship and gain chinese citizenship?

Nope..Someone asked that question previously..several years ago in fact. Perhaps in this thread or in theold ez board days of 5 years ago.
You have to be Chinese citizen of the Peoples Republic of China to join the PLA. All others need not apply.
You >>> PLA soldier <<<cannot join! Join the Army in your home country would be your best bet..
edit 5 minutes later...

Let's see as near as I figure you live in Finland and are only 15 years old according to your profile. So in most countries you have to be 17 or 18 to join the military. So just wait until then.

还是不行啦，有人最近问过和你一样的问题……好吧，是几年前，也许是五年前，当时这个论坛的版本可能还处于ezboard（公告板）时代吧。

你首先必须生为中华人民共和国的公民，才有资格加入解放军，其他一切免谈。

你，解放军战士，两者无缘，放弃吧，还是加入你自己国家的军队吧，这才是王道。

五分钟后重新编辑……

进一步说吧，由你的资料，我猜你住在芬兰吧，15岁，在大多数国家，法定参军年龄大概在17到18岁，所以，你还是再喝几年奶看看吧。



Finn McCool

There's always the Legion Etrangere

总是有外籍军团存在滴。



Damingli85

What about Chinese turned into American citizen and then to Chinese citizen?

如果一个中国人先换成美国国籍，然后又恢复中国国籍呢？



bd popeye

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damingli85 View Post

What about Chinese turned into American citizen and then to Chinese citizen?

Nope

还是不行。

Quote:

You have to be Chinese citizen of the Peoples Republic of China to join the PLA. All others need not apply.

I should have stated a natural born Chinese citizen.

我的意思是你必须是一个土生土长的中国人。



HKSDU

answer is no people not even Hong Kong or Macau people are allowed to join the PLA

连香港和澳门的年轻人都不让加入解放军呢。（ID显示应为香港人）



bd popeye

Quote:

Originally Posted by HKSDU View Post

answer is no people not even Hong Kong or Macau people are allowed to join the PLA

Thank you! No Tibetans..No Mongolians none of the non racially Chinese people in western China or anywhere else in China. No foreigners.
You have to be a Chinese person born in China. Period.

多谢啦，西藏人不行，蒙古人不行，这些生活在中国西部省份的或者其他地方的非中原人种都不行（？），更何况是外国人？

你必须是一个土生土长的中国人，讨论到此为止。



backwindow

Quote:

Originally Posted by bd popeye View Post

Thank you! No Tibetans..No Mongolians none of the non racially Chinese people in western China or anywhere else in China. No foreigners.

You have to be a Chinese person born in China. Period.

Tibetans & Mongolians & Uyghuｒs are doing service in PLA. If they are chinese citizen.

解放军中是有西藏人，蒙古人，维族人在服役的，如果他们是中国公民。


lcloo

I was working in China, and I watched CCTV7 regularly. There was a Uyghu girl in PLA medical unit going round villages giving health aid. I remember she was an officer but I forgot her rank.

There are also many non-Han PLA soldiers in Inner Mongolia and Guangxi provinces. Zhuan people in Guangxi are non-Han Chinese.

我曾在中国工作过，时常看CCTV7军事频道，里面看到过一个维族医护兵女孩在给一些村落的人们提供医疗救助，我记得她是个军官，但忘了是什么军衔了。

的确有很多非汉族士兵在内蒙古和广西服役的，广西的壮族就不是汉族人。



Damingli85

But I was born in China! I just got my citizenship here for college .

可我以前就出生在中国啊！我只是为了上大学才换成现在的国籍。（这个华人后悔换国籍了）



backwindow

Although people from Hong Kong and Macau are legally Chinese citizen, they do have different passport.

尽管香港人和澳门人都是中国公民，可他们却有着（跟大陆）不同的护照。

kw64

Quote:

Originally Posted by bd popeye

Thank you! No Tibetans..No Mongolians none of the non racially Chinese people in western China or anywhere else in China. No foreigners.

You have to be a Chinese person born in China. Period.

Sorry but this claim is not true, it's not unusual for Chinese minorities to serve in PLA:

很抱歉的说，bd popeye你的说法是不对的，中国少数民族去参军的情况很常见啊。
Here's an example of an Uygur officer:

下面就是一位维族军官的例子：
http://www.gmw.cn/CONTENT/2009-07/25/content_953564.htm
And a Tibetan officer:

而这是一位藏族军官：
http://military.people.com.cn/GB/107...3/7062275.html



tres

Quote:

Originally Posted by bd popeye View Post

Thank you! No Tibetans..No Mongolians none of the non racially Chinese people in western China or anywhere else in China. No foreigners.

You have to be a Chinese person born in China. Period.


That's not true. In the history of PLA, there were many people from other countries, including USA, Canada, and India joined PLA. In fact two of the most famous WWII era military doctors were Canadian and Indian.
bd popeye 你说的不对，在解放军历史上，有很多人是来自外国的，包括美国，加拿大，印度等，实际上，（中国）抗日战争中最出名的两位军医，一个来自加拿大，一个来自印度。
Today you could see Tibetan, Mongolian, Korean and Urger soldiers in uniforms in different ranks.

如今，你可以找到很多军衔不一的藏族，蒙古族，维族的士兵。



bball2k

Hmm...this is interesting. Where did you hear that non racially Chinese people cannot join the PLA? CCTV-7 has showed Tibetans in PLA a couple months ago and you can watch those on youtube. Some are serving in the Tibetan areas and some outside. Uyghurs have been shown also.

According to wiki, a ethnic Korean Zhao Nanqi(Cho Namgi) was a 3 star general(1988) and a former director and party secretary of the PLA so it's not like ethnic minorities can't rise to high ranks either.

恩，蛮有趣的，你们从哪听说非汉族人不能加入解放军的？ CCTV7几个月前刚刚播过一期有关藏族士兵的节目，一些在西藏执勤，一些则在其他地方，关于维族士兵，也早就播过了。

根据维基百科资料，一个名叫赵南起（Cho Namgi）朝鲜族人，官至3星上将（1988年），当过军队指战员，党委书记，所以说少数民族将领晋升受到限制的说法也不成立。



bd popeye

Quote:

Hmm...this is interesting. Where did you hear that non racially Chinese people cannot join the PLA? CCTV-7 has showed Tibetans in PLA a couple months ago and you can watch those on youtube. Some are serving in the Tibetan areas and some outside. Uyghurs have been shown also.

According to wiki, a ethnic Korean Zhao Nanqi(Cho Namgi) was a 3 star general(1988) and a former director and party secretary of the PLA so it's not like ethnic minorities can't rise to high ranks either.

and...

Quote:

Originally Posted by backwindow

Tibetans & Mongolians & Uyghuｒs are doing service in PLA. If they are chinese citizen.

http://pic.itiexue.net/pics/2009_4_6_69463_9069463.jpg

Ooppss my bad  Thanks for that information! I was unaware of that.

看来我错了，多谢指教，我以前还不知道呢。

第一阶段讨论结束。



PLA Soldier

OKey, thank you for your answer everyone. I have question, and that comes now: If I would move to China, and gain citizenship of Peoples Republic of China, would it be then possible for me to join PLA?

谢谢所有回复的人，现在我的新问题来了：如果我现在搬到中国去住，然后获得中国国籍，那我再参军有戏吗？（这哥们怎么那么想参加解放军啊？）



bd popeye

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLA Soldier View Post

OKey, thank you for your answer everyone. I have question, and that comes now: If I would move to China, and gain citizenship of Peoples Republic of China, would it be then possible for me to join PLA?

Nope..not as far as I know. But I could be wrong...but I don't think so.
至少就我看来，不行。不过也有可能我错了，但这种情况微乎其微。（变得谦虚了……..一点）
Question for you PLA. In our forum here and our sister site sinodefence.com there are hundreds and hundreds of pictuces of PLA soldiers. Thousands proabaly...
问你个问题，在我们的论坛和姐妹网站sinodefence.com上面，有那么多的解放军照片，可能成千上万张…
Since you are from Finland..May I ask are you white? That is my assumption. So if you check out photos of the PLA have you evere seen a white westerner in the uniform of the PLA? Ever??? Just asking.

鉴于你来自芬兰，请问你是白人吗？我就臆断如此吧，那么请你翻翻看这些照片，你能找出一张，就一张，上面的解放军战士是穿着制服的白人吗？有过吗？我只是问一下。



PLA Soldier

Yes, I´m white western, and yes, I have never seen any white people in PLA uniform. That is the reason why I´m asking this from you.

是的，我是西方白人，我也承认，我从未见到有白人穿着解放军的制服服役，可这也是我向你问这个问题的原因。



HKSDU

Tibetans, Mongolians & Uyghuｒs are all still classfied as being ruled under the PRC and in the end still Chinese, while Macau and Hong Kong are not. Your not gonna be in the PLA if your not born in the country unless your a spy. Which is always the case.

藏族人，蒙古人，维族人一直被认为处于中国的统治之下，但他们到底还是中国（大陆）人，但对香港人，澳门人而言就不同了，不出生在中国大陆，想进解放军？门都没有，除非你是去当（他们的）间谍。一直以来都是这样的（指招募港人，澳人做间谍）。【此处多谢 传输用 大大】



lcloo

From my observation while in China, I have noticed that,
以我在中国观察的经历，曾经注意到一下的事情：
The recruitment exercise starts with a large red banner hung up by local village or town government. At the same time local TV will broadcast the time, place, age and document requirements. (In Shenzhen, almost every town has its own TV broadcasting control).
征兵事宜一般被当地村镇政府大事操办，会悬挂红色的横幅来进行宣传，本地电视台会广播征兵时间，地点，所需准备的材料。（在深圳，几乎每个村镇都有自己的闭路广播电视）
I only witnessed one recruitment exercise in the same village which I stayed for 7 years. I could have missed a few though. Also, may be because the PLA was cutting down its size during those years, so less recruitments.
我在我待过7年的小集镇只目睹过一次这样的征兵行动，很可能我错过了一些吧。但也有可能是因为这些年解放军一直在执行裁军政策吧，所以征兵次数减少也理所当然。
An important documrnt is Residence Card 户口issued by Public Security Bureau. Only mainland Chinese citizens have this document, Hongkong and Macau people don't have this as they are ruled under different laws. Without this residence card, you have no way of getting in PLA. (Residence card is not ID card, fake ID cards were easy to get but not residence cards).
（应征）的一个很重要的材料是你的户口本，由公安局颁发，只有大陆人才有这样的本本，香港人，澳门人没有，因为一国两制嘛。没有这个小本子，你是无论如何也参不了军的。（户口本不是身份证，假的身份证容易搞，可你搞个假户口本试试看？）
Interview was in collaboration with local town government. I think they want to acertain the personal information and check for crime records, and also priority will be given to member of communist party.

征兵也离不开本地政府的协助，我认为他们是想借此确认应征人员的个人信息，检查是否曾有过犯罪记录，当然，中共党员有被优先招募的权利。



kw64

Quote:

Originally Posted by bd popeye View Post

Nope..not as far as I know. But I could be wrong...but I don't think so.

Question for you PLA. In our forum here and our sister site sinodefence.com there are hundreds and hundreds of pictuces of PLA soldiers. Thousands proabaly...

Since you are from Finland..May I ask are you white? That is my assumption. So if you check out photos of the PLA have you evere seen a white westerner in the uniform of the PLA? Ever??? Just asking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLA Soldier View Post

OKey, thank you for your answer everyone. I have question, and that comes now: If I would move to China, and gain citizenship of Peoples Republic of China, would it be then possible for me to join PLA?

Popeye:

I would say that's an underinformed conclusion, partially because the white/black Chinese population is relatively small, so you don't see them in photo ops very often...
对Popeye说:

我得说，你的说法有欠推敲，（找不到白人解放军战士）的原因，一部分是因为黑或白种中国人的比例在中国人口里相对较低，你看不到是很正常的
I'd suggest you to read the latest revised Chinese law regarding military service, in Chapter 1, section 3: http://www.gov.cn/banshi/gm/content_63510.htm
我建议你读一读最新修订的中国解放军服役法，在第一章，第3节。

http://www.gov.cn/banshi/gm/content_63510.htm
It states "All Chinese citizen, regardless of ethnicity, race, occupation, family background, or degree of education, have the full right to serve in the military."
指出：凡中国公民，不管其种族，族群，职业，家庭背景，或教育程度，都享有到军队服役的权利。
PLA did have two ethnic Russians serving as 1-star generals in the army back in the 60s:
http://www.360doc.com/content/090716...1_4302019.html
回溯至60年代，解放军里确实有两名俄罗斯裔的一星将军在役。
Here's some other examples of PLA soldier of Russian descent:

这里有几个其他俄罗斯后裔解放军战士的照片：

03b1f320d54f255ea1301945a10202d1.jpg



PLA Soldier:
对PLA Soldier说：
Yes, as what I said above, you can join PLA if you become a Chinese citizen. If ethnically Russian Chinese can join the PLA, I'm pretty sure an ethnically Finn Chinese can do the same. Plus it's all in their consititution.
是的，我刚才讲过，你可以在成为一名中国公民之后加入中国人民解放军，如果连俄罗斯裔的中国人都可以加入，我敢写包票，一个芬兰裔的中国人也可以做到，更何况这都是在他们的宪法里明明白白写清楚了的。
Hope this helps!

希望能帮到你！



bd popeye

Thanks for clearing this subject up kw64.
Looks like I was wrong on several accounts. Thanks again for the correction.

多谢KW64，把这个问题说清楚了。

看来，我的解释有很多漏洞啊，再次感谢更正。



Violet Oboe

For more than 10 years after Hong Kong's reintegration there was a law in effect that actually prohibited service in PLA for citizens of HKSAR. However in late 2007 the law was modified and the regulatory statutes now explicitly stipulate that every legal HKSAR citizen may serve in PLA.
香港回归超过10年以来，事实上曾经有部法律是禁止香港特别行政区的公民在解放军中服役的，但是在2007年末，该法案被修订，现在的条文明确规定，凡合法香港特别行政区公民均有权服役解放军。
Interestingly there were already rumors for some years that a number of Hong Kong people had served in PLA and possibly the Mainland never took HK's legislation seriously but of course the whole thing was only a placebo for mitigating irrational fears of HK citizens about PLA recruiting arbitrarily in HKSAR.

有意思的是，多年以来一直有这样的传闻：有一些香港人已经在军中服过役了，可能是因为大陆从未认真对待香港的法制规定吧。不过，这整件事只是一针减缓恐惧的安慰剂罢了，因为一直以来，香港人对解放军“专横”招募香港居民参军怀有莫名的忧虑。



Damingli85

Nice, since I was born in China and I am biologically Chinese, I could just throw away my US citizenship and join the PLA. But then, Good Iron does not become a nail, and a good man does not become a soldier.

不错，因为我出生在中国，我在血统上就是中国人，我可以扔掉我的美国护照，再加入中国人民解放军！可是，好铁不成钉，好男不当兵啊（这是哪门子的口谚啊）



Engineer

I'm more interested in joining their weapons R&D.

我对如何参与他们的武器研发更感兴趣。



Finn McCool

I'm just curious, why do all these ethnic Chinese (or not even that apparently) want to join the PLA so badly?

我只是好奇，为何所有的这些少数族裔的中国人（或者看上去连中国人都不是）这么急切的想加入解放军呢？



PLA Soldier

Quote:

Originally Posted by kw64

Popeye:

I would say that's an underinformed conclusion, partially because the white/black Chinese population is relatively small, so you don't see them in photo ops very often...

I'd suggest you to read the latest revised Chinese law regarding military service, in Chapter 1, section 3: ??????????????

It states "All Chinese citizen, regardless of ethnicity, race, occupation, family background, or degree of education, have the full right to serve in the military."

PLA did have two ethnic Russians serving as 1-star generals in the army back in the 60s:

Here's some other examples of PLA soldier of Russian descent:
http://i1.hk/u/attachments/day_09042...JKb5K9sIcr.jpg


PLA Soldier:

Yes, as what I said above, you can join PLA if you become a Chinese citizen. If ethnically Russian Chinese can join the PLA, I'm pretty sure an ethnically Finn Chinese can do the same. Plus it's all in their consititution.

Hope this helps!

YES!!!! It really does help me! Thank you very much! Seems like that I have to douple my efforts in my studies of chinese lanquage.

太感谢了！！！！确实太有用了，现在我应该怀疑我在学习中文上所下的功夫了。



第二部分讨论结束，迄今为止，大家理性讨论，楼基正正的。



vladimir1918

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finn McCool

I'm just curious, why do all these ethnic Chinese (or not even that apparently) want to join the PLA so badly?

Because they hate freedom!
因为他们讨厌自由！
The answer is very simple. The ethnic Chinese youth you meet on this forum are interesting in PLA, if they want to join other countries army they will not be on this forum.
I bet you can find Taiwan people with dual citizenship who want to join the ROC Amry in some Taiwan military forum.

答案很简单，在这个论坛上你遇到的少数民族的中国年轻人，都对加入解放军感兴趣，如果他们想加入别的国家的军队，他们就不会在这个帖子下面留言了。

跟你赌吧，可以拥有双重国籍，并且想加入中华民国的军队的台湾人，你可以在台湾的军事论坛里一抓一大把。



feifei

according to some report published in chinese froum,some divisions,which had serviced in the fouth Field Army of PLA, raised many koreas in the War of Liberatio. and then these koreas came the Korean War.

根据一些在中国论坛上公布的报告，解放军第四野战军旗下的一些部队在解放战争期间曾征募了很多的朝鲜裔人，之后的韩战（抗美援朝），是这些人奔赴到前线参战的。



PLA Soldier

kw64, thank you very much! Your information has been most usefull this far.

KW64，多谢你了！你提供的信息目前最有用了！



kw64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finn McCool View Post

I'm just curious, why do all these ethnic Chinese (or not even that apparently) want to join the PLA so badly?

Well there are plenty of foreign nationals in the U.S. military and French Military, so I guess it's not completely unusual wanting to join some other nation's military.

话说回来，在美国和法国军队里面都有很多外国裔战士啊，所以我想，这种想参加别的国家的军队的想法并不是完全不可理喻的。

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLA Soldier View Post

kw64, thank you very much! Your information has been most usefull this far.

No problem It's actually surprisingly easy to apply for Chinese citizenship. The only prerequisite requirement is that you have to be a legal residence living in China. There are no language or minimum years of stay requirements. Due to the economic boom, in recent years there's a spike in number of foreign nationals applying for Chinese citizenship (mostly from Africa and South/Southeastern Asia), and the Chinese government generally maintains a relatively open policy towards Citizenship Applicants so far (unless there's politically sensitive issue involved). The only one thing is that the Chinese government does not recognize duo-citizenship, so you have to give up your previous citizenship once you got the Chinese citizenship.

不用谢啦，事实上，现在申请中国国籍巨简单，唯一的先决条件就是，你是生活在中国境内的合法居民，还没有语言或者居住年限的要求。源于经济的迅猛发展，这些年，申请中国国籍的外国人数量出现井喷（大部分来自非洲，南亚，东南亚）。目前为止，中国政府总体上执行的是一个相对开放宽松的公民申请政策（除非涉及到政治性敏感区域）。唯一需要记住的是，中国政府不承认双重国籍，所以，在获得中国国籍的时候，无可避免地，你同时就失去了你的先前国籍。



lcloo

To Finn McCool

对Finn McCool说：
Joinging PLA is a family honour in China nowadays. There is a saying in China that you get paid joining army in foreign countries but you have to pay to joing the PLA.
加入解放军如今被视为一种家族荣誉，在中国有这种说法：在别的国家，是别人花钱请你参军，在中国，是你自己花钱来求参军。
Honor is something all face loving Chinese treasured. Also they get trained in PLA for various skill like driving, engine repairs etc. Other benifits like vocational traning and job placement after discharge, pirority in getting railway tickets, special rates hotels for servicemen all over China.
荣誉感，是所有爱面子的中国人都珍视的。在军中，他们还接受诸如驾驶，引擎维修等等的技能培训，其他好处像，职业培训，退役后的工作分配（貌似已经不分配了吧），轨道交通乘车优先，差行人员旅馆住宿费减免等等。
People in poor villages are living in extreme hard conditions, and joining PLA and getting trained is a dream to many.

对于大多数生活在农村极端困苦环境下的人们来说，参军受训绝对是可遇而不可求的。



PLA Soldier

Weel, I did already know that cost of getting Chinas citizenship is to give up old citizenship. But, still, it would be the cost of joining the PLA. Yes, I´m seriously thinking about joining the Chinas army.

我已经知道了换取中国国籍的代价就是丢掉原来的国籍，可是，比较能加入中国解放军这件事而言，代价依然是值得的。是的，我正在认真的考虑这件事。



LostWraith

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finn McCool

I'm just curious, why do all these ethnic Chinese (or not even that apparently) want to join the PLA so badly?

Joining the PLA has many social benefits when you retire as a veteran, and you can learn many skills that may be helpful in finding a job in an urban center later on. You get a decent salary and is free from housing and living expenses.
参加解放军后，一旦你服役期满退伍，是可以享受很多的社会福利的。你可以学到一些用得上就业技能，（服役期间）每个月领到一份不错的薪水，而且没有住房，生活上的开支。
Another bonus is that since China is at peace and is in no hurry to fight wars everywhere, you don't really have a chance of getting killed (accidents aside but those are present in civi life as well). This makes the army a safe job and a good one.

另外一个好处，鉴于中国现在处于和平时期，没必要担心会打仗，所以你丢掉性命的可能性微乎其微（事故致死另当别说，因为在日常生活中，也会发生的）。在中国，凡此种种，使得参军变成一份安全并且体面的工作。



T-U-P

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLA Soldier

Weel, I did already know that cost of getting Chinas citizenship is to give up old citizenship. But, still, it would be the cost of joining the PLA. Yes, I´m seriously thinking about joining the Chinas army.

You do realized that as a foreigner, china doesn't give out its citizenship easily. It's not like Canada where you will get one if you stay for x number of years. Last time I heard from the news was that China only grants citizenship to distinguished individuals who made an impact for a better China.

你也知道啊，对于一个外国人，中国是不会轻易地颁发给他一个公民身份的。不像在加拿大，只要待够X年，你就可以拿到公民证了。之前我听到一个新闻，说中国政府只会将永久公民身份颁给对中国有杰出贡献的个人。



PLA Soldier

I understand that Chinese citizenship is hard to get. If they ask reason, I say that I want to join PLA, and you know, fresh meat for the grindery?

我了解拿到中国国籍的困难程度，如果他们问我申请理由，我就说，我想加入中国人民解放军！你们知道的，玉不琢不成器嘛。



PLA Soldier

So, the conclusion: So, it is possible for western men to join PLA, if they move to China first and gain citizenship. What comes to the other discussion, good mens does become soldiers. If not, this world would be much more darker place to live.

现在我来做结吧：一个外国人加入解放军是可能的，前提是他们必须搬到中国去住并且获得中国国籍。至于我们讨论的第二个话题，我认为好男儿应胸怀投笔从戎，惩恶扬善之志。如果没有了这份志向，我想这个世界会变得更加黑暗不堪吧。





翻译了大概一半，一个芬兰人急切想加入解放军的确实很奇怪。不过，对于一个15岁的少年，3分钟的热情是常事，想必很多人都会怀疑他的这份热情的持久性，之后的评论开始出现这方面的讨论，包括有些人质疑KW64是否美化了参加解放军后的待遇，对获得中国国籍的申请条件有所隐瞒，来故意诱导这个少年等等……

先翻译这么多吧，得出去吃饭了，明天再继续吧。

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继续补充翻译：

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kw64

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-U-P View Post

You do realized that as a foreigner, china doesn't give out its citizenship easily. It's not like Canada where you will get one if you stay for x number of years. Last time I heard from the news was that China only grants citizenship to distinguished individuals who made an impact for a better China.

That's not entirely true. China sometimes deny citizenship applications due to security concerns, or if there are political sensitive issues involved. But China still has relatively low number of citizenship applicants, even lower from European nationals, and I don't think they would consider someone from Finland a potential security risk or a subject to any politically sensitive issue. So I don't think PLA Soldier would have any problem applying for the Chinese citizenship, as long as he would become a permanent residant first. Of course bureaucratic redltapes are prevalent in China, and sometimes it can get frustrating to speed through any official business for foreigners or Chinese alike.



不全对，中国有时出于安全考虑或者涉及政治敏感问题会驳回一些公民申请。现在想申请中国公民身份的人相对而言，数量不多，来自欧洲国家的申请者就更少了，而且我不认为他们会视一位芬兰人为安全隐患，其中也不会涉及任何敏感问题，所以我想楼主申请中国国籍不会受到什么阻挠，只要他首先成为一个中国的永久居民（拿到永久居留权也不简单啊！哥哥）。

当然，在中国，官僚主义是很流行的。想快速搞定某个官方事宜的结果往往让人绝望，不光是对外国人，中国人也一样。



PLA Soldier

So far, relations between Finland and China have been good. That´s why I don´t think that China would consider me as security risk, or in any other way of trouble-causing men. Only thing that might cause that sort of thinking would be that I wan´t join PLA.

目前为止，中芬关系良好，所以我不认为中国会视我为安全威胁，或把我当成啥劳什子的麻烦制造者，唯一可能招来麻烦是，我想加入中国解放军的动机吧。



bd popeye

PLA Soldier. I have some questions for you.
楼主，有几个问题想问你，
Why do you want to join the PLA? And when you become of age why don't you join the Finnish armed forces? Isn't there conscription in Finland? Thanks!

你为什么想加入PLA啊？当你适龄参军的时候，你完全可以加入芬兰军队嘛，芬兰不是也有募兵活动吗？多谢回答！



Mr T

PLA Soldier, I'm afraid that kw64 is painting an overly optimistic and unrealistic picture of what you'd be facing in trying to join the PLA. I think it's important to be realistic even if you (for some reason) really wish this could happen.
楼主，恐怕KW64为你描绘一幅过于理想的参军前景，不过你有多么想做成这件事，脚踏实地，要现实一点，懂吗。
The first thing would be to move to China. Now you can't just do that on a whim. You need to either be a student there or have a job there. Being a student isn't helpful because when you finish your studies you're off - at best it would buy you time.
首当其冲的事，你要搬到中国去住。你现在还不能有冲动就行动，到那儿，你要么当个留学生要么有个工作，修学业顶不了用，因为学业结束，你就得回来了，充其量它可以为你争取一点时间。
In regards to work, unless you have some particular skills and qualifications that China needs you're not going to get a job, other than maybe teaching English as a foreign language and that's no good long-term career. It's not stable because you can be laid off in the blink of an eye and frequently doesn't pay all that well. Certainly it won't let you get permanent residency.
再来说去那儿工作，除非你掌握了某种技能或有啥职称，否则你别想找到工作，除非是去教教英语，不过那并不是个长久的活，很不稳定，随时可能被炒掉，而且报酬通常也不高。毫无疑问，这份工作并不能使你获得永久居留权的。
Even if you get a great job, marry a Chinese woman and get permanent residency, you're still highly unlikely to get an offer of nationality. The foreigners who get Chinese passports are usually rich businessmen who contribute to the Chinese economy and get friendly with powerful people.
即使你找到份不错的工作，娶了一位中国老婆，在中国定居下来啦，抱歉，你得到中国国籍的可能性还是不大，持中国护照的外国人往往是对中国经济有贡献，与权贵来往甚密的商业巨贾或者。
But let's say you get a great job, marry a Chinese woman, get permanent residency, make great friends with people who decide on nationality applications and then an offer of nationality. That would take so long you'd probably be too old to join the PLA anyway!
再进一步，假设在此基础上，你真的结交甚广，认识了管事的人，不过那个时候，你恐怕老的连枪都提不动了吧！
You also need to realise that China doesn't allow dual nationality, so you'd have to give up your Finnish citizenship and passport. You'd need a visa to travel to anywhere in Europe, even your home. Are you sure you'd want that?
你还需要认识到，中国不承认双重国籍，所以你得放弃你的芬兰籍和护照，那会导致你连到欧洲旅游,甚至到你自己的家去都需要签证，你确定你想做这件事吗？
Put it like this. If you want to go to China, live and work there, good luck. But you need a plan before you go as to what you're going to do there, otherwise I think you'll be unhappy. Realistically joining the PLA is not going to happen, so you will need an alternative line of work. Just remember that the Chinese job market is very competitive.

这样说吧，如果你想去中国，生活，工作，祝你好运，但出发前务必有个去那做什么的计划，不然，你会遇到很大的挫折的。现实地说吧，加入解放军这事永远不可能发生，随后你会妥协性地找到一份工作。可我还得提醒你，中国的劳务市场竞争是相当激烈的。



vesicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr T View Post

Put it like this. If you want to go to China, live and work there, good luck. But you need a plan before you go as to what you're going to do there, otherwise I think you'll be unhappy. Realistically joining the PLA is not going to happen, so you will need an alternative line of work. Just remember that the Chinese job market is very competitive.

When someone wishes someone else "good luck" in the manner as you did, it is usually a sarcastic thing. So if I'm not mistaken, you made it sound like living in China nowadays in general is a bad idea . That seems to contradict what the general feeling is about living and working in China NOWADAYS. In fact, we have multiple friends (Chinese, Chinese-Americans, Taiwanese, Taiwanese-Americans, Caucacian-Americans) who moved to China and enjoy their life over there very much. And that was not a typo and I did say Taiwanese moving to the Mainland and love it there. One of my buddies is actually pan-green and he hated the idea but his wife who is a Chinese wanted to go back badly. So he went along "for the sake of love". Now he loves it there and would not come back to the States.
你这种祝别人“好运的”方式实际上是在挖苦别人。如果我没弄错的话，你的意思是，现如今生活在中国是件相当糟糕的事情，这似乎与普遍的在中国生活得到的感受不符。实际上，很多朋友（华裔，中美混血，台湾人，台美混血，欧美混血）搬到中国去后，都蛮享受那里的生活的，是的没错，搬到大陆的台湾人也很喜欢那里的生活，我有个兄弟，（台湾）泛绿阵营的，他的大陆老婆想回到大陆生活，开始他气坏了，但为了爱情，他还是跟着回去了，现在他俩已经爱上了那里，乐不思蜀了。
TO PLA soldier, I do agree with other posters that you have to be careful about this move that you are making. As someone who has given up his original citizenship to live in another country, I tell you that giving up your own citizenship should not be taken lightly, doesn't matter which nation you are from. If you truly want to join PLA, I would suggest you live in China for a while. You usually can't get the whole picture when you are outside and looking in. you either get overly excited and positive or overly negative, depending on the kind of political/educational background you had. Some good examples of both are vivdly illustrated in this thread and this forum in general. These people are either never been to China or been away from China for a long time. I don't know about others, but I, myself, am one of these people (being away for almost 20 years). My parents always say that I am too positive on China and that I am one of those people who "is standing but never understands the backpain suffered by those who are on their knees". So you have to actually live in China to know what China is like and then make your decision.

想对楼主说句话，我完全同意之前有人说的，凡事务必三思而后行。作为一个过来人（我也放弃了自己原先的国籍，生活在另外一个国家），想告诉你，把国籍看淡点吧，你从哪个国家来一点关系都没有。如果下定决心加入PLA，我会建议你先去中国生活一段时间吧，跳脱事务之外，从外部观察事务，通常获得对事务的认识并不全面客观，会过于正面或过于负面，这取决于你受到的政治教育背景。在这个帖子里甚至这整个论坛里，这样的例子生动鲜活，比比皆是，这些人要么从没到过中国，要么离开中国已经很长时间了，我不知道其他人怎么回事，但我自己就是这样的，离开我的祖国已经快20年了。

（不得赞一下，这位老华侨留言相当给力。）



PLA Soldier

My decision isn´t totally completed yet. It is true that we have conscription in Finland, but it isn´t an army anymore these days. Well, you know, our equipment is a bit outdated. And still, there is a feeling that you should something with your life. I know that I haven´t witnessed chinese lifestyle or culture in that way I could really make that big decision by information so far. Still, the Rising Dragon has always fashinated me within my own way.
我的决定尚未成熟。我们芬兰的确有募兵活动，但现如今那已经称不上是一支军队了。这么说吧，我们的装备老得掉牙。另外在我心里，老有这种想法：这辈子我得干件说的出口的事！

我知道，我对中国人的生活方式，或者文化一无所知，只有那样，我才能真正地做出一个重要的决定。在我心里，崛起的中国龙自然有让我迷醉的地方。
Okey, now finally the reason why I wan´t to join PLA:
1. I have always dreamed about moving to foreign country. SWerving in that countrys armed forces would be great way to "pay back" my depth to my new homeland.
2. Why China? Many reasons. New superpower, strong military, enormous economy, strong coverment, chinese girls are beatifull!
3. And no, I´m not warcrazy militant. Actually, I love peace, but not in that way as many think about it. I wan´t to protect peace and wellfare of my beloved ones with arms if necessery.
4. China is not at war apparently.

好吧，下面就是我想加入PLA的原因：

1.       我一直以来就有移居国外的打算，加入拥有强大军事力量国家的军队会是一个证明我对新的祖国拳拳忠心的最好途径。

2.       为什么是中国？很多原因，新兴的超级力量，强大的军事，蓬勃的经济，强力的政府，还有漂亮的中国女孩。

3.       澄清一点，我不是一个嗜血的战争爱好者，相反，我爱好和平，但不是以很多人想象的那种方式。我想捍卫和平，在必要的时候，我会身背长枪，向我的至爱永别。

4.       中国现今处于和平状态。



Mr T

Quote:

Originally Posted by vesicles View Post

When someone wishes someone else "good luck" in the manner as you did, it is usually a sarcastic thing.

If I was being sarcastic it would be that I didn't think he had a chance of moving to and working in China. But I wasn't being sarcastic - if the guy wants to move to China and get a job he deserves to be wished luck.

如果真像你说的，我在嘲讽他，我会直接告诉他，他根本不可能移民到那儿，工作在那儿。但是我真的没有-如果他真的想到中国去，他当然值得别人对他的祝福。



williamhou

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLA Soldier View Post

My decision isn´t totally completed yet. It is true that we have conscription in Finland, but it isn´t an army anymore these days. Well, you know, our equipment is a bit outdated. And still, there is a feeling that you should something with your life. I know that I haven´t witnessed chinese lifestyle or culture in that way I could really make that big decision by information so far. Still, the Rising Dragon has always fashinated me within my own way.

Okey, now finally the reason why I wan´t to join PLA:
1. I have always dreamed about moving to foreign country. SWerving in that countrys armed forces would be great way to "pay back" my depth to my new homeland.
2. Why China? Many reasons. New superpower, strong military, enormous economy, strong coverment, chinese girls are beatifull!
3. And no, I´m not warcrazy militant. Actually, I love peace, but not in that way as many think about it. I wan´t to protect peace and wellfare of my beloved ones with arms if necessery.
4. China is not at war apparently.


Good reasons. But since you have not been to China to experience whether you like it there or not (I am pretty sure you will), you had better move there to study/work before you make the decision to join the PLA. I think you are likely to change your mind and turn to another profession, when you are more mature.
很好的理由，可是因为你从没到过中国，你不会知道你是否喜欢那儿（当然，我确信你会爱上那儿的），你可以在决定加入PLA之前先在那里学习或工作一段时间。我相信，等你再长大一些，你很有可能会改变你的想法，改行换业。
Moving to China should be easy. Nowadays foreigners are common in the developed cities of China (Tier one cities, namely Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen, Guangzhou) and they are very popular, especially if you are white and if you have good people skills/connections. Building relationships and making friends with people during your study/work there is VERY important, you can get a lot of opportunities if people like you and introduce you to those who make decisions.
移居中国应该不难，现在在中国的大城市（上海，北京，深圳，广州），外国人很常见，而且相当受欢迎，特别是对有较强沟通能力的一些白人。在学习工作的同时，建立自己的关系网，结交四方朋友是很重要的，如果你的朋友喜欢你，把你介绍给管事的人，那样会得到很多的机会的。
Joining the PLA in China is a dream for many in the less developed areas, but not for those already have good living standard. The life and training in PLA, in fact most armies are very tough for newbies, and the living standard of PLA may be far worse than Finnish army's, for that I do not think joining PLA as a regular newbie would be a good idea for many people. As you said 'chinese girls are beatifull' I think you would prefer a career you are able to meet those girls more often.
对于生活在欠发达地区的人们来说，参军是个不错的选择，但对于富裕地区的人们而言，就不是这种情况了，在PLA中的生活，受训，事实上和其他国家军队一样，对新兵都是相当苛刻的，而且PLA的生活标准很可能远赶不上芬兰军队，所以我说，在PLA中当个新兵蛋子对很多人来说，并不是个好主意。至于你说“中国的姑娘们很漂亮”，我想你还是希望找个能频繁接触女孩的职业吧。
I would suggest you get a good education background first from western countries and get a job in one of the tier 1 cities in maniland China, Hong Kong or Macau to experience the lifestyle and build connections as well as explore opportunities. Or if you are sure you want to join the armed force, apply for a degree in one of the military academies in China you would be valued by most armed forces in the world when you graduate, for your unique background, and you can decide to get Chinese citizenship and join the PLA as a officer or join other armed forces. I am not sure how hard it is for foreigners to apply for military academies but the requirements are surprisingly low for foreigners in the most reputed universities in China, because the top universities are starving for foreign students and they want to be more international. So if you don't get a place in military academy, getting into Tsinghua University/ Beijing University would be a good alternative and would make your career path more flexible.
我会建议你，先在西方接受一个良好的教育，然后在我说的那些中国大陆的大城市加上香港，澳门里面找份工作，适应那里的生活，建立关系网，并寻找机会。如果你已决定参军，就在中国的军事院校里面申请个学位读读，在毕业之时，你会因为独一无二的背景，得到世界上绝大多数的军事机构赏识，那个时候再决定是获得中国国籍加入PLA成为一名解放军军官还是到其他国家参军。我不清楚一个外国人去申请读军事院校会有多难，但是外国人申请中国其他的一些重点大学的门槛相当低，因为这些大学想变得国际化，对国外学生求贤若渴，所以如果你没申上独立的军事院校，去读北大清华会是个不错的备用选择（无语啊）。这样，你的职业规划会更具灵活性。
Hope it helps

希望能帮到你！



FriedRiceNSpice

Quote:

So if you don't get a place in military academy, getting into Tsinghua University/ Beijing University would be a good alternative and would make your career path more flexible.

It would be easier to get into Harvard or Stanford.... Those are the two toughest schools in the world to get into. EVERYONE in China aspires to those two universities.

你还不如让他申请哈佛或者斯坦福呢…… 这才是世界上最NB的两个学校，中国的所有学生都憧憬这两所学校。



williamhou

Quote:

Originally Posted by FriedRiceNSpice View Post

It would be easier to get into Harvard or Stanford.... Those are the two toughest schools in the world to get into. EVERYONE in China aspires to those two universities.

That's true for Chinese students. Not the case at all for foreign students, they do not need to be involved in the Chinese high school exams and they are judged differently.

对中国学生来说是这样，但对其他外国的学生未必，他们没必要经历高考，并且考核方式很多元。





五星红旗

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLA Soldier View Post

As seen in topic, my porblem is that I wish to know would it be possible for non-chinese citizen to join PLÀ? This not a joke, I´m talking dead-serious about this.

It's no problem!

没问题，来吧。



PLA Soldier

Even though my questions have been answered, any and all tips and advices would be really apriciated

尽管我的问题已经得到了解答，在这里还是很感激所有给我留下建议和意见的朋友们。



bladesyz



Quote:

Originally Posted by williamhou View Post

As you said 'chinese girls are beatifull' I think you would prefer a career you are able to meet those girls more often.

I think this is a point the OP should seriously consider. Being in the army doesn't give one much time to go dating and meeting people. In fact, you can just forget about a normal love/family life.
我想有一点楼主应当慎重考虑，在军中服役是不会有时间去和女孩约会和结交朋友的，你会发现你不能再享受正常的恋爱和家庭生活了
Also, just because China isn't at war doesn't mean being in the Army is safe. The PLA undertakes many dangerous search & rescue missions, and if you get assigned to Xinjiang, you run the risk of being the target of terrorist attacks.

还有，中国处于和平时期并不代表参军就不危险，PLA在中国承担了抢险救灾的重任，如果你被分配到新疆执勤，你将面对恐怖主义的袭击。



LostWraith

Quote:

Originally Posted by bladesyz View Post

I think this is a point the OP should seriously consider. Being in the army doesn't give one much time to go dating and meeting people. In fact, you can just forget about a normal love/family life.

Also, just because China isn't at war doesn't mean being in the Army is safe. The PLA undertakes many dangerous search & rescue missions, and if you get assigned to Xinjiang, you run the risk of being the target of terrorist attacks.

Well it's comparatively much safer since China definitely has not lost more than 5000 troops over the last decade.

鉴于中国在过去的十年里，牺牲的解放军不超过5000，中国还算是很安全的。



EdT586

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLA Soldier View Post

My decision isn´t totally completed yet. It is true that we have conscription in Finland, but it isn´t an army anymore these days. Well, you know, our equipment is a bit outdated. And still, there is a feeling that you should something with your life. I know that I haven´t witnessed chinese lifestyle or culture in that way I could really make that big decision by information so far. Still, the Rising Dragon has always fashinated me within my own way.

Okey, now finally the reason why I wan´t to join PLA:
1. I have always dreamed about moving to foreign country. SWerving in that countrys armed forces would be great way to "pay back" my depth to my new homeland.
2. Why China? Many reasons. New superpower, strong military, enormous economy, strong coverment, chinese girls are beatifull!
3. And no, I´m not warcrazy militant. Actually, I love peace, but not in that way as many think about it. I wan´t to protect peace and wellfare of my beloved ones with arms if necessery.
4. China is not at war apparently.

Good reasons, but if you give these reasons to the PLA recruiting office they will not accept you per say, but I admire your conviction to serve !
好理由，但是你如果真的向征募军官说这些的话，他们是不会要你的，只会说，我很欣赏你为人民服务的决心
These reasons would be more appropriate:
1. I am a PRC member
2. I am a socialist
3. I want to serve the Chinese people and China
下面的理由更靠谱儿。：

1.       我是中共党员

2.       我是社会主义者

3.       我想为人民服务，为中国服务
How many armed forces in the world do you know that it's
世界上有多少军队像这样的：
Commander in Chief during inspection reviews asks: "How are you doing Comrades ?"
...and the troops answers in unison: "We are doing good Commander !"

Commander in Chief asks again: "Have you been busy Comrades?"
...and the troops answers in unison: "Busy serving the "eople" Commander !"

总指挥官在检阅部队的时候问：同志们好！

所有的战士齐声回答：作者有误（应为 首长好！）

然后总指挥官再问：同志们辛苦了！

战士再答：为人民服务！



Obcession

It's interesting that I've taken an oath to defend the Chinese country and people in the Youth Vanguards, and another oath to defend the Queen and Canada when I became a citizen. Interesting moral dilemma if I have to fight on one side against another.

在我加入中国少年先锋队的时候，我起誓保卫中国和我们的人民。当我成为加拿大公民的时候，又起誓效忠女王和加拿大，当这两方敌对的时候，我岂不是会陷入道德上的窘境，有趣。


EdT586

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obcession View Post

It's interesting that I've taken an oath to defend the Chinese country and people in the Youth Vanguards, and another oath to defend the Queen and Canada when I became a citizen. Interesting moral dilemma if I have to fight on one side against another.

Can you tell me about the the Youth Vanguards, tthier structure etc, do they have a website ?
你能给我介绍一下中国少年先锋队么，他们有网站么（开玩笑！）
I am trying to set-up international exchange visits between them and IACE. We would be so happy if the PRC's equivalent would be part of the IACE !
我现在正筹划一个他们和IACE（国际少年军官交流组织）交流互访项目，如果我们（指IACE）能吸收中国入会，那将是多么令人高兴。

IACE Official Web Site

IACE官网

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